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Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please 
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Lancashire, United Kingdom
Post Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
I've been teetering around using dry pigments for a while, but have felt a little daunted by them; opting instead for tube and bottle watercolours. But not any longer. I want to move on and hopefully move my print work on too.
Could you help me?
On the pages regarding pigment preparation you have a very useful list of your set of base colours, which I'd like to roughly match. The whole idea of ready to use base colours to mix as required, and the variety of tones that can be achieved by just using less or more of a pigment has been a bit of an eye opener. In the past I'd have mixed 2 bowls of blue, one thicker and one thinner to make a light blue and dark blue of the same hue. Not any more.
I've been looking at the pigments available via Baren Mall, but they're all listed by number, and in such a wide range. Do you get your pigments from the same supplier, and if so, is it possible to match a colour from your list to a number from the Baren Mall pigment range? (I don't want to push you into recommending one supplier directly over another, but a bit of a steer would help hugely as I'm just getting a little colour-dazed by the choice.)
Cheers,
Mark.


Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:52 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 194
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
The pigments I talk about in the eBook, and the pigments in the [Baren] Mall, are - unfortunately - different stuff. Matsumura-san is carrying the kind of product that is in demand by the hobby market here, and those people want a range of ready-mixed colours. So nearly all the stuff in his list has white opaque powder mixed in; that's where the range of tints comes from.

The stuff described in the eBook is raw pigment, nothing else added. The problem here, is that my supplier isn't the slightest bit interested in selling overseas (either through the Mall, or directly, or whatever). I've asked them on more than one occasion, and they just don't want to know.

Another solution to the problem would be to get Matsumura-san to carry some 'real' pigments, but he also isn't interested. In fact, he's recently been making noise about withdrawing the whole range from the Mall, as he is getting frustrated with filling orders for 10 grams of this, 10 grams of that, 10 grams of this ... etc. etc. So I can't push him just now for any change here ...

I have no other easy answer. I myself have no experience with overseas pigment suppliers (Guerra, Kremer, etc.) so can't direct you to any specific place where you can buy those things, but I'm thinking they must be out there somewhere, because they are not specifically rare or unusual ...

Can anybody else here recommend supply sources?


Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:41 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:30 pm
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Location: Tokyo, Japan
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
OK, just a bit of digging around in a Google search, and this place looks very interesting - Natural Pigments dot com.

That link goes to a search page on their site, and some of the items look very similar to what I am using:
Prussian Blue (4 oz vol) 417-17S
Ultramarine Blue (Greenish Shade) (4 oz vol) 417-18S
Orpiment 430-20S
Vermilion 450-15S
Hematite (100 g) 450-31S
Cochineal (Premium Chilean) 455-32S

About the only essential for me that I don't see on their site is pure Indigo, and I think that must be available here and there in any country ...


Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:55 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
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Location: Lancashire, United Kingdom
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Thanks, Dave.
I know you're busy, so the post is much appreciated.
I'll have a scout around with your base colour list and see what I can come up with.
Cheers,
Mark.


Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:20 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
I've never bought pigment...yet.

These two spring to mind in London...

http://www.cornelissen.com/html/pigments.asp

http://www.apfitzpatrick.co.uk/pigments.htm

I've been to Cornelissen in the past but never for pigment.


Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:15 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:33 pm
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Location: Lancashire, United Kingdom
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Thanks for the info, Hideki.
I'll check out the links.

Regards,
Mark.


Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:32 pm
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:16 am
Posts: 11
Location: Kongsberg - Norway
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Hi
I have more questions - this time on pigment choices:
I have been reading the Hiroshi Yoshida book http://mokuhankan.com/catalogue/0008.shtml and on page 70 I find the following quote: "Mineral pigments are not good for our purpose, for they do not sink into the paper".
I find this very confusing, because he next continues to list as suitable a number of mineral pigments such as earths, lead, cobalts, ultramarine and even cadmiums. Does anyone have any idea what he means? What are your experiences with mineral pigments?

As a side comment to pigment powders, a number of manufacturers now make "color concentrates" or "color pastes" (pigments in water + small amounts of additives) such as these:
http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/shopint/index.php?lang=ENG&list=01030103
http://www.naturalpigments.com/pigment_dispersions/default.asp
The positive effect is that you don't have to worry about the dust. And that is one not minor health risk eliminated.


Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:42 am
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Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Aase Maj Haakonsbakken wrote:
Does anyone have any idea what he means? What are your experiences with mineral pigments?

I would think that what he is talking about are the pigments like ground lapis lazuli, etc. - actual minerals in particulate form - which (in my limited experience with them) do come up too 'hard'. But I'm not all that sure ...

Quote:
As a side comment to pigment powders, a number of manufacturers now make "color concentrates" or "color pastes" (pigments in water + small amounts of additives) such as these ...

The selection from natural_pigments.com really does look quite interesting. I'm a tad nervous about what else might be in there - they are a little bit coy about that - but I think these look very useable. It's basically a professional version of the 'home-made' procedure I use for my own stuff. And I imagine that they are very finely ground - the colours must come out very smooth!


Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:07 am
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:16 am
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Location: Kongsberg - Norway
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Quote:
The selection from natural_pigments.com really does look quite interesting. I'm a tad nervous about what else might be in there - they are a little bit coy about that - but I think these look very useable. It's basically a professional version of the 'home-made' procedure I use for my own stuff. And I imagine that they are very finely ground - the colours must come out very smooth!

The additives, I guess, could differ from pigment to pigment (i.e. some need alcoholes) but are generally there to avoid mould and keep the pigments dispersed from what I understand. The long term effects can only be tested by time (though I am sure they do accelerated laboratory tests).
I think the general tradition of secrecy in the art (supplies) business is bad for the artist. But that is a quite different subject..

BTW, Kremer seems to give more information on what the content is. As for their Lamp Black: http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/shopint/index.php?cat=01030103&lang=ENG&product=27600
Quote:
Chemical description:
Aqueous suspension of pigments. Contains C.I. Pigment Black 7 and about 5 % polyethylene glycol (CAS 25322-68-3; EC 500-038-2).


Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:17 am
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:16 am
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Location: Kongsberg - Norway
Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Quote:
I would think that what he is talking about are the pigments like ground lapis lazuli, etc. - actual minerals in particulate form - which (in my limited experience with them) do come up too 'hard'. But I'm not all that sure ...

Prussian blue and I think also hematite in your list above are mineral pigments. I wonder if this is more a question of particle size than the actual chemistry.


Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:07 am
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Post Re: Dry Pigment Choices... an Idiot's Guide please
Aase Maj Haakonsbakken wrote:
... Prussian blue and I think also hematite in your list above are mineral pigments. I wonder if this is more a question of particle size than the actual chemistry.

Well, I'm not sure about that ... Lapis lazuli is actual smashed up stone, but Prussian Blue is a synthetic, it seems.


Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:12 am
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